This afternoon, ESPN NBA analyst Jalen Rose discussed the 2017 NBA Western Conference Finals: the Golden State Warriors vs. the San Antonio Spurs on a conference call with media. Rose will be on the road for the entirety of the Western Conference Finals for NBA Countdown alongside host Michelle Beadle and analyst Chauncey Billups.

ESPN will exclusively televise the 2017 NBA Western Conference Finals. Further details of ESPN’s coverage can be found on ESPN Media Zone.

Below is a transcript from the call.

Q. I’m sure you probably saw or heard Popovich’s quotes on Pachulia and Kawhi. What are your thoughts on that play? Do you think it was dirty or just incidental contact and there was nothing malicious behind it. Pop seems to think that, given Pachulia’s history, there was some intent.

JALEN ROSE: I’m in a unique position to speak on that topic, because while something doesn’t have to be dirty or malicious, it can be flagrant. But the problem with the league is it’s not called as such. You can take the emotion out of it.

The bottom line is it’s a play that I am not proud to say I did to Kobe Bryant in the 2000 Finals. The only reason why I brought it up ten years later — nobody prompted me to do so, after that game, after that year, five years later. The only reason why I brought it up is because I felt like he was fortunate enough to get basketball karma 81 times against my Raptors. That’s the only reason why I brought it up.

So with that being said, I think that’s how the league should call it, and I do think that’s what took place on that play.

Q. What are the story lines you can see in this series maybe that you saw even before what happened last night going into this series that you can speak on?

ROSE: Well, I’ll tell you a story line that’s lasted before my eyes as I saw the Golden State Warriors have a season low in points and field goal percentage in the first half. I did a double take to the sideline, and I looked out on the floor, and I was like, can they win this series? That did flash before my face.

I immediately came to my senses. In particular, those thoughts came crashing down when Kawhi Leonard goes out of the game and they’re up 23 points, and it looks now like a dramatically different series. You go from having the Spurs, who clearly would have won the game — now, I appreciate Steve being in the building, and I hate that he can’t be on the sidelines. But that’s if Kawhi Leonard doesn’t get injured.

So for me the story line coming into the series was a contrast of styles. It’s the Spurs are forced to play a lot more conventional bigs, LaMarcus along with or Pau or Dedmon, type of lineups versus the Golden State Warriors who feature a depth lineup. One team has four All-Stars and prides itself on ball movement, and one team has a guy in Kawhi that’s really just ascended to be a superstar this year. So those are the things I was looking forward to see, a contrast of styles.

Q. Not to belabor the one play too much, but it’s going to be huge. Do you think that was a dirty play by Zaza, as Gregg Popovich said, or was it the kind of thing that guys do all the time and they shouldn’t do? I know there is a rule against closing out and putting your feet under the guy, but basically was it a dirty play?

ROSE: It’s a flagrant play. It’s not necessarily dirty, because that puts emotion into it. It’s not — it’s more irresponsible. It’s more reckless than anything else. When you go to contest a shot — if you look at his play, his initial momentum with the split, it stops when he contested the shot. Once his foot stops, he moved it again.

The one thing about being a professional athlete is you know your body better than anyone. You know the real estate of the floor better than anyone, other than the guy clearly that’s out there with you playing basketball for a living. You also know the scouting report of each player. Just like a fan in the stands or somebody watching the game that can’t hear the volume. We all just saw Kawhi Leonard injure his ankle two times before that play.

So it can be viewed as a coincidence. I don’t necessarily think it is. But, again, to me the term “dirty” adds emotion. I don’t think that he was trying to put Kawhi in a position to where he couldn’t play basketball again. I don’t think that — I do know there is a difference between being injured and being hurt. So that’s why the league should call it as such. That clearly should be a flagrant foul.

Q. I imagine during your playing career you at some point had to deal with some sort of ankle injury. I was just wondering, from a former player’s perspective, just how difficult is that sprained ankle? How difficult is it for a player to deal with and try to play through, if necessary, and just what a player goes through in that type of situation?

ROSE: It’s always unique when you have an injury to your lower extremities because you can’t still train as normal. Like if you have an injury to your hips or your quads, your hamstrings or your knees, your Achilles or your feet, it just hampers your ability to not only do the rehab, but keep your conditioning up.

Draymond talked a lot about after the game how basically he was gassed at halftime because the team had been off multiple days and the Spurs were just coming off of a series, and they just were the team that seemed more in shape to perform at the beginning of the game. And that’s the same thing that’s going to happen with an ankle injury for Kawhi.

While he is one of the most productive athletes in the game, it is going to be something for him, A, to get healthy, and/or B, to get back to playing like he was.

Here’s what I anticipate is going to happen. Everybody’s going to be breaking news; I’ll make it broken news right now. Pop has to come out today and say Kawhi’s not playing the Game 2. He has to give him those handful of days to get even ready for Game 3. If he’s not 110% ready to go, then that’s going to be a decision for Game 3. But it will be a miracle to me. I’m not surprised at all if I see breaking news that Kawhi is out for tomorrow.

Q. Actually, I see on my breaking news that Kawhi Leonard is out for Game 2. So there you go.

ROSE: Bang, bang. You know what I’m saying? This is what we do.

Q. To what degree did James Harden damage himself and his team by his performance down the stretch in the Spurs series? What does he do to restore whatever damage there may be during the off-season? Are people overemphasizing the possibility that he has harmed his legacy or harmed his position with the team by the manner in which he played down the stretch?

ROSE: A few things.

So, there is going out to compete as hard as you can on any level, at any endeavor, and it’s okay to lose to a better team. It’s actually okay to be beaten by an underdog. Those are the story lines we drive in sports. Now working in the media had me gravitate to it as a fan, and obviously gave me enthusiasm as a player.

The disappointing thing that I saw that night — and I went back a couple of games. I was actually watching this with a lot of friends. And usually I don’t remember scores of the basketball game because I have so many that run through my mind, but it was 29-28 and it was Game 3. James falls on the ground, and then they and Eric Gordon try to help him up multiple times, and for some strange reason he refused to allow them to help him up.

For anybody that’s been on their bad side before or saw somebody else, whether it’s a teammate, a comrade, how about a complete stranger, do you know how hard you have to try to not reach your hand to allow somebody to help you up? That almost has to be your sworn enemy.

So when I saw that, that dynamic showed me that there is clearly a disconnect taking place behind the scenes in that situation. So when you see a team win Game 1 by 27 and lose Game 6 without Tony Parker and without Kawhi by 39, and he just looks disinterested, nonchalant, didn’t take a shot in the first quarter, only took two in the first half, had as many fouls as turnovers, James Harden doesn’t play defense, fouls out, and then the optics never look good when you seem to not show a level of humility or, for me, personal dignity.

Not that you can’t come out of the house after you lose a game. I mean, when Chris, unfortunately, called timeout when we were in college, we did go out after the game. But we were college kids. As I started to get older, there was just something in my chest and in my stomach that I was like, man, I don’t want to be bothered. I can’t show my face right now.

So the way he stood around and played the minutes that he played, it just looks worse as a leader, when not only you’re at the club but you’re at the strip club. It’s showing that you’re giving more effort and more concentration to what’s going on away from the floor than what we just saw happen that night. That was just a poor dynamic to play out, not only for him, but for the Rockets.

Q. On a less serious note, I’m curious. Michelle jokes a good deal about being a Spurs fan. But when you see her in the studio watching the game before you go to halftime, how seriously does she take the ups and downs of the Spurs?

ROSE: So, I’m glad you brought this up. So there are fans, but then there are actually those who go to games. What I started to learn as I’ve gotten older, there are many people that claim their team but never truly go to games. So she was a person that her dad had season tickets, still does, went to a lot of Spurs games growing up. So it just so happens that she became a member of the media and now her team is playing in the Western Conference Finals and she’s covering it for the first time.

So, really, like the look of anguish that was on her face once Kawhi got injured versus the enthusiasm she showed in the first half when he was putting it down and looking really good, I felt bad for her. I truly do.

Because the Spurs had, I think, what it takes to make this a really interesting, possible seven-game series had they won Game 1. Now with what they’re dealing with, you can’t count out San Antonio, but if Golden State picks up their game and they’re shorthanded and Kawhi’s hobbled, you would hope that they could probably find a way to win in five.

Q. Our Colorado guy, Chauncey, signed a multi-year extension with ESPN. I’m just curious your thoughts on his evolution as a broadcaster, a guy who seemingly followed a little bit of a similar path that you did, just kind of like what you see. Take us inside the scenes of the work he does, the preparation, and just sort of how you see him evolve in his role and what you see for him going forward.

ROSE: I’m happy for him as a friend, a brother, a teammate. It’s well-deserved. I joked yesterday sitting on the set that I was sitting with two rookies for the Western Conference Finals, because neither one of them had Countdown duties before this year on our show. So it was breaking new ground and will be for The Finals as well.

He’s hard working. He’s accomplished not only as a player but off the floor as a humanitarian, as a father, as a husband. He’s known to be a leader in the league, a clutch player, somebody that really pays attention to details. Also, there is a level of when you’ve been around the corner, you can talk about more experiences.

So the first handful of the years in the league, I think he probably played for four or five teams that gave him a different snapshot of do I even have what it takes to live up to my draft status? Do I have what it takes to have a long career? Then finding a home in Detroit and playing six straight Conference Finals and winning a championship and winning Finals MVP.

So as somebody that was playing with the Nuggets and met him then while he was at Colorado and then got a chance to not only be friends with him but clearly a native Detroit and rooting for the hometown team, I’m happy to work with him. He’s doing a terrific job. We’re looking forward to not only the Conference Finals and the NBA Finals but hopefully having a team that we can lock arms with in the evolution of NBA Countdown and make a go at this for a really long time.

Q. How hard is he working at that Big Three? I understand he got a cut above his eye. Did your guys’ makeup team have to work pretty hard on him to get him ready?

ROSE: Well, I was like, man, let me tell you something. You just retired three or four years ago. I’ve been retired ten years. I’m not trying to be playing no meaningful basketball. I’m not looking at the score and actually care who wins.

He’s doing a really good job of getting his training in. He’s eating better. You saw his Rocky cut above his eye. I’m excited to get out there and go support the big three and check out a couple of his games.

 Q. I have a draft question. When you came out, I’m sure there were plenty of questions about your character, especially associated with the Fab Five, and the braggadocios, and what kind of teammate guy, person you would be. Obviously you passed all the tests with flying colors, but during that process, were you worried about convincing teams that you were a good guy? Did you make a concerted effort to straighten up or talk a certain way during interviews? How did you go about that process that guys are going through now when they’re trying to convince teams that they’re a good model citizen?

ROSE: The information now to these players are a lot more prevalent, and they almost can have the Cliff Notes version of the test, versus back then, I wasn’t as informed or as polished to what to necessarily expect. You have people that are working really hard for you. I had an amazing agent and a terrific support group, but still you’re the person that’s going through it.

Pre-social media, things were done more like behind the scenes, that was almost insulated that the public truly didn’t know anything about and the players didn’t know anything about. So it disappoints me when I hear certain questions get asked.

I think one of the young prospects was asked how did he want to die or something like that. Is that what he was asked and he gave an answer to that?

So those are the type of things that become head scratching and are totally misguided and have nothing to do with his projection as a player. But also when you’re a player, like any other job or profession, there are going to be barriers that you have to go through before you accept the position, and before you put ink to paper and before you put on a uniform.

So I learned a lot throughout the process, whether it was working out with other players, doing certain drills, taking certain written tests, traveling three or four cities at a time to work off of different teams in back-to-back situations. You know, trying to really sell yourself to a team that you hope drafts you. Right now each prospect feels like they want to go to the highest bidder. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

Q. Michele Roberts came out with a statement about how Phil Jackson talked about Carmelo Anthony, calling it inappropriate when Phil said he thought Carmelo was better off going somewhere else to chase a championship. As a player, ex-player, how do you view how Phil has handled the Carmelo Anthony situation this year?

ROSE: So, I actually, there are a couple of things I’ve been pointing out for a couple years that I think people didn’t pay attention to. It’s the business of the game, and that’s the Knicks are still ranked first or second on the Forbes list of value franchises though they haven’t had success on the court or they haven’t been a defending team. Then there is the score of the game, and that’s how they’re doing their business.

A few years ago there was a time when the fans were threatening to picket outside MSG the ownership of James Dolan. What did he do a few weeks later? He hired Phil Jackson, and gave him a $65-plus-million deal and turned everything basketball over to him for public sentiment. So now whatever doesn’t go right, you look to Phil Jackson as a coach.

He turned around, and signed Carmelo Anthony as a free agent, who could have left, by the way, but he didn’t want to leave money on the table. Nobody’s here to blame him for doing that. You know, he could have gone to Chicago or whatever other teams had offers at the time. But not only do I want top dollar, I want a no-trade clause. Of course we’re going to give you a no-trade clause. Now Phil, we’re going to get Porzingis, and now everybody’s happy.

But what Phil failed to do is continue to build around those players. And, unfortunately, Carmelo, what he also showed is he couldn’t be the best player on a championship contending team. So now what ends up happening is his value isn’t of the player that they signed. Phil clearly is misguided publicly on how he’s handling it because all you do is devalue the player. You’re not going to get the level of value you hoped in return for a guy that just averaged 20 points in the league.

So now, because the situation where Dolan, Phil, and Melo are literally stuck with one another. So it doesn’t matter what Phil says publicly. Carmelo, Dirk, LeBron, the only three players in the league with a no-trade clause, he’s not going to be able to come to him and say, oh, we’re going to trade you to the worst team in the league because that’s not going to work, and/or vice versa because other teams know he may not want to come to that team. So only thing I can do is trade you to play with LeBron or trade you to play with CP3.

I anticipate is what’s going to happen in training camp is Phil’s going to be in his job, Melo’s going to be in uniform for the Knicks.

Q. Could youdescribe what you think the greatest evolution has been from the Warriors of ten years ago to the team that we see today, and which one of those two do you think ultimately we’ll see as the greatest scorers?

ROSE: Well, the biggest evolution goes through the same moniker, and it’s called Strength in Numbers. Well, they actually had that before, Bogut, the shot blocking big that also can get you assists, a really good passer. Ezeli was a rim protector, can get you blocks, get you boards. Leandro Barbosa can get you ten points in a quarter coming off the bench.

You still had a Harrison Barnes that you drafted. Then you also still had Iguodala and you still had Shaun Livingston, Strength in Numbers was legitimate. Now it’s strength in All-Stars. Look no further than yesterday where Steph and K.D. combine for 74 points. That was the most they’ve combined for during the season, while Klay and Draymond were in single digits.

So they’ve got a team that over that period, however, when nothing gets discussed is that they’ve been consistent defensively. While, unlike the Houston Rockets, we get enamored with their offense because they have three guys that can get you 40 on a given night, and four guys that can make five threes on a given night at least. We get enamored with their offense.

But the depth lineup on defense with Draymond playing fours and fives and K.D. being a true defender, rebounder, and shot blocker. I think that’s what looks a lot more different with this year’s team.

Q. With Tony Parker and Kawhi being out at least for a game, what strategy do you think the Spurs should use to remain competitive in the series?

ROSE: Well, you’re searching for points now. And LaMarcus can play well in the first half in particular, but he got gassed late. It’s hard to play a lot of power when they’re playing five guys around the three line, so then you need more minutes. And Jonathon Simmons who played hard, was productive, but he just hasn’t been — he’s not a 20-plus-point scorer type of player.

You want Danny Green and Patty Mills to shoot better. They both struggled, but the bench played well. They outscored Golden State’s bench 39-13. So I don’t think in Game 2 they’re going to be able to match the fire power and/or the onslaught of the Golden State Warriors who are going to play a lot better.

Q. We’re waiting on word from Iguodala. He only played ten minutes in Game 1, and he has something going on with his knee. What impact do you think Iguodala’s actions would have on the Warriors bench, if, in fact, he can’t go in Game 2 or beyond?

ROSE: Here’s the thing I love about sports, if they don’t have a healthy Andre Iguodala, they won’t win the championship. He was a player that was actually Finals MVP when they won it a couple years ago playing against LeBron James, and the Cleveland Cavaliers are going to be there again. So he is an important part to what they do.

I still think having a potential 2-0 lead versus the Spurs going back to San Antonio end up being the favorite going into the series. I think they’ll still, whether he plays or not, with all due respect, will find a way to advance. But in the next round, if they don’t have him, just like last year, I don’t think they win it all.

Q. I wanted to go back to the Zaza play which you called flagrant on Kawhi. I mean, a play like this could possibly cost this team a run at a championship. As a player, do you expect some kind of payback, maybe, for a play of this magnitude that knocks out Kawhi?

ROSE: The game has changed a lot, and one of the things that has changed is there is no true, physical intimidation. What I mean by that is a player can talk trash, a player could bump his chest and celebrate, it can be excessive. There are certain things that may happen out on the floor that you may not like, but ultimately you can’t physically intimidate that player anymore.

It’s not like he can drive to the basket and Bill Laimbeer’s going to foul him by his arms and then the second foul by Rick Mahorn over the head is going to be a lot harder. Or Charles Oakley and Patrick Ewing, the Davis brothers — you get where I’m going.

Because of that and the fact that the Spurs carry themselves with class, and not saying that it wouldn’t be a class move to retaliate, it’s just sports, I think there won’t be any Zaza driving to the basket and all of a sudden somebody, the 12th man, is in the game to go clothesline on him. I just don’t think that’s going to take place.

Q. You touched on this a little bit, the idea of the game changing in these past years. Can you talk about what’s changed as far as what’s acceptable for trash talking on the court, and how much does a player like Draymond — what sort of value does he add or sometimes subtract with his mental battles that he gets in?

ROSE: I think over the years the boundaries as physical intimidation was taken out of the game, and we have social media and there are cameras everywhere and there are microphones on the floor, I think we pretty much understand that there is nothing out of bounds. So it’s really what you allow and it’s what you allow to distract you, more importantly.

So Draymond is a player that likes to get fired up not only by how he plays but by what he says. As an opponent you know how you can shut the guy in front of you up. Play better than him, beat him. That’s really what you can do.

So I think while Draymond is really the anchor of the interior of the Golden State Warriors, he has to be a player that finds ways to keep himself emotionally invested, keep the technicals down, and not be putting himself in a position to get ejected from a big game.

Q. What’s your thoughts on Kevin Durant’s four block output in the game. How influential has his progression in defense been?

ROSE: Well, there was a tale of two halves, and while he did have four blocks, and I appreciated how Steph took over in the third and K.D. was terrific in four, there was a period of time within the first three quarters it seemed like every guy that was scoring the basket was over K.D., whether it was LaMarcus Aldridge on the post, whether it was a couple of high-low actions, Kawhi Leonard.

So in the first half, he was a target for most of the game. In the second half, though he was able to sprinkle his blocks throughout the game, I think his activity picked up once his offense got a lot better. It didn’t help that Kawhi went out of the game. But he’s paying a lot more attention on that end. He’s a lot more invested.

Having Draymond helps a lot, because he’s usually going to play against the dominant big man on the other team, on the other side.

But he is long. He is athletic. Having his versatility at that spot defensively allows them to continue to play how they want to play on the offensive side.

Q.  Jalen, my question to you is as a former player, understanding as an analyst, what should Pop have done in order to disrupt the rhythm and the flow? Because you know the Warriors were going to get hot sooner or later. But what should he have done in your opinion to preserve the win with the loss and Kawhi going out?

ROSE: Well, Pop is the master. We saw it as they advanced past Houston. He has to sit out Kawhi, and he’s winning by 39 points and all of a sudden Kawhi’s healthy Game 1 and they’re thumping the Golden State Warriors on the floor. And I just think something happened that he could not control, and that is Kawhi Leonard got injured. Because I think if he had stayed in the game, I expect the San Antonio Spurs to be up 1-0.

Q.  Do you think he should have slowed the game down? Do you think, whatever, to force them to slow it up?

ROSE: Well, there are three different levels that he couldn’t control. When you’re not scoring, you allow them to run. Also, both teams were turning the ball over. I think it was 41 total assists, 46 total turnovers. And also when you’re not getting to the free-throw line. So you’re not doing those three things and you can’t slow down the other team.

I don’t know if like — let’s say, for example, they had a player who wasn’t a good free throw shooter, which, you know, the Warriors are pretty good. But, I mean, the Hack-a-Shaq or something like that, do you think that could have been employed to even slow it up and say, hey, we don’t have Tony Parker, we don’t have Kawhi, what are we going to do?

ROSE: But the Warriors don’t have those levels of (indiscernible) that you can highlight. Also, I want to give them a lot of credit. Steph got going with flurries really fast and put up 19 so quick. Next thing you know K.D. got going. And you look at the up at scoreboard, like they both have (indiscernible)? And Zaza has 11 points and nine boards and an unintentional foul on Kawhi Leonard?

Q. The last champion outside of the top 10 in defensive rating, the Lakers back in ’01 at 21st. The Cavs are 21st in defensive rating this season. Do you think that that’s the biggest concern? I don’t want to anoint them and put them past Boston or Washington, but would that be your biggest concern as you move through the Playoffs preparing for San Antonio or Golden State, No. 1 and No. 2 in defensive rating this season?

ROSE: I appreciate your professionalism in not wanting to put them past the Boston Celtics or the Washington Wizards, so I’ll do it for you. (Indiscernible) injury, that’s going to happen.

With that being said, I was saying they’re the NBA’s version of Noah’s Ark, like they have two of everything. So when you’re able to craft a roster like that around LeBron James, who is still the elite, dominant player in the league, they went from being a team that wanted to string together three to five stops at a time to a team that wants to end the game by scoring three to five baskets at a time. And a lot of times from three-point range or in isolation situations, what you normally don’t see.

I’m pretty sure, just like you have the defensive rating stat that’s pretty low, I’m pretty sure they’re probably one of the teams in the league that isolate more than anybody. Usually that’s a no-no for who is doing it. And it’s Kawhi, I mean, it’s Kyrie and LeBron.

So, while they’ve been undefeated in the Playoffs, I always look down at the stat sheet and was like Indiana’s scoring over 100. Toronto’s still scoring over 100.

When can that be a problem? Well, it could be a problem if they’re facing a Golden State Warriors team that is healthy, and in particular with all of their core group of players. That probably could be an issue at that point. But when I see Andre Iguodala dealing with a knee injury, and how the first half in particular of yesterday’s game went, if I had to shift to who I felt like I had to put all the chips in the middle of the table to win it all if The Finals were to happen tomorrow, it’s hard not to say that the Cavaliers wouldn’t be my pick.

Media contacts: Gianina Thompson at 860-766-7022 or [email protected] (@Gianina_ESPN).