Mark Jackson
analyst 

Jeff Van Gundy
analyst

Doug White
senior director, programming & acquisitions

NATE SMELTZ, ESPN PR:  Thank you to everyone for joining today’s call to discuss the NBA Conference Finals.  On the line today we have our lead game analysts Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy.  They will call the Western Conference Finals on ESPN and The Finals on ABC.  We also have Doug White, ESPN senior director of programming and acquisitions. 

Q.         Mark and Jeff, there’s been a lot of discussion and chatter this week, especially on ESPN entities, about a comparison between Dwyane Wade and LeBron James and Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, sort of who the better twosome if you can even do that.  As guys who have coached against them and played against them in Mark’s case, I wonder if you could take a look at that comparison and how do you see it? 

MARK JACKSON:  I think it’s premature to begin to discuss those guys as a combination in the same breath as Michael and Scottie, and I’m not one of those people that say that they’ve got to win five or six championships before you put them in the discussion.  I’m just saying basically let’s respect what those two guys have done collectively.  If you want to talk about putting them in the conversation individually, LeBron James is going to be an all‑time great…in my opinion, Dwyane Wade is the third best shooting guard to ever play the game.  You can say that. 

But at the same time what they did together as a combination should be respected, and it’s too premature to put those guys in the conversation as a combination, what they’ve accomplished ‑‑ they haven’t done anything together yet. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I would agree with what Mark is saying.  To start talking in terms of comparing guys who were teammates for nearly a decade to guys who just haven’t even completed one full season together I think is way premature, and it’s also discounting the greatness of Pippen, because no one would discount what Michael Jordan did, and I think trying to compare them right now is really discounting just how good a player Pippen was. 

Wade and James will go down as one of the best combinations I think to ever play, but you have to give them time and let them do it together for a period of time. 

Q.         Jeff and Mark, what is your sense as far as the buzz among more casual sports fans just about the NBA right now compared to maybe what it was this time of year in recent seasons? 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  Well, obviously I think the Lakers losing in the manner they did takes away a huge part of the casual fan base because they were a team that has been there so many times, and the same with Boston.  I think obviously for the casual fan, those two going out early may take away some viewers, and yet I think we have four new teams in the Conference Finals this year compared to last year, and I think that’s good for the NBA, that it’s not just dominated by the same franchises, that every team has a chance if they make smart decisions.  Their fan base will have a chance to win, advance and ultimately compete for a championship. 

MARK JACKSON:  And I agree with Jeff.  I disagree probably with the first part.  I think that for the casual fan, it basically brings them alive again because you almost thought, well, Boston and LA would be there.  I think for the casual fan it says, well, who are these new guys or who are these new teams, and it’s intriguing and it’s interesting to get to know them, to embrace them, and to celebrate the game.  So I think it will draw more attention because people will want to know what happened to the Lakers or what happened to the Celtics and what a breath of fresh air to see this new young talent explode on the scene. 

Q.         Jeff and Mark, wondering what you would do from a personnel standpoint after last night if you were Spoelstra? 

MARK JACKSON:  Well, I just think that if you’re Erik Spoelstra, it’s not about who I’d put on the floor.  They were thoroughly outplayed and manhandled, and it’s about getting the job done individually and collectively.  So I think they just ‑‑ Chicago won all of the effort points, and the first thing I would try to do is let that message be known by reassuring them that the problem can be solved, but it’s going to have to be solved in between the lines because they got thoroughly outplayed and outworked last night.  It’s not about the rotation. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  As far as about Coach, you can game plan offensive things and defensive things, but when the ball is in the air, that’s much harder to plan for.  Either you are a really good rebounding team, which Miami actually have a very good defensive rebounding team, or you’re not, and the match‑up between offensive rebounding, which Chicago is very good, and defensive rebounding, where Miami excels, was overwhelmingly in Chicago’s favor last night.  And a lot of that was due to penetration. 

When the ball gets in the basket area, bigs have to come and help, and it takes away opportunities to stay attached to your own man to block him out.  So I think it starts with individual defense.  And I think they’ll make that correction to what extent they can. 

As far as personnel, you know, Erik is trying to come up with a rotation for each series that works best for him.  And certainly rebounding I think factored into him playing Magloire last night.  I think they will make some changes.  I would not be surprised at all if he just said, you know what, we’re going to go with Haslem as our backup, and we’re going to play him, or with Juwan Howard, where they try to get a little bit more mobile, stretch the floor a little bit with some more shooting, because really Wade missed a couple lay‑ups that would have kept the game real close in the third. 

The score looked worse than it was.  I thought it was a very close game until Chicago ‑‑ and give them credit, they broke it open with a heck of a second half. 

Q.         Let’s go to the Western Conference Finals.  I’d like to get your assessment of how you see it will play out and predictions if you have one. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think the nine‑day layoff for Dallas is a major factor to overcome.  NBA teams and players at most usually have two to three days off.  To have nine days off, no matter what you try to get done in practice, I think it makes it difficult to stay as sharp as they were, particularly to finish the L.A. series.  You’ve worked all year to get home court, and you don’t want to be rusty where you don’t play well in that first game and lose home court advantage. 

But I do believe Dallas will eventually win the series.  I think it’ll be a very difficult series, though, because of Westbrook, Durant and their strength inside.  But I just really like how Dallas is playing at both ends, if the layoff doesn’t impact them too much. 

MARK JACKSON:  I think I couldn’t agree with Coach more as far as the layoff.  I think the layoff is going to be a key factor in both Game 1 and Game 2.  The reason why is because NBA players and teams, you’d much rather continue to roll on when you’re playing great basketball rather than trying to get it back.  I think it’s going to be an advantage in the first two games or a great opportunity for the Thunder to get one of these first two games because they’re fresh off of playing a Game 7.  Even though there’s some fatigue, they’re young and they’ve been playing.  So the activity is going to really help them early on.  I think it’s going to be a great series, and it’s going to be extremely tough to call, but if Oklahoma wins one of these first two games, I see them gaining some valuable confidence and they’re really going to make it a great series, which will go all the way to 7. 

Q.         Looking at the Thunder, obviously they’ve come quite a ways in three years.  Are you guys surprised they have come ‑‑ they’re in the Finals so quickly? 

MARK JACKSON:  I’m not surprised.  I think people expected to see the Lakers and the Thunder or the Lakers and Dallas.  But you know, nobody knew who that other team would be in the Western Conference Finals.  I think you’ve got to give Scott Brooks and this young Thunder team a lot of credit because they didn’t just sit on last year’s success as far as taking the champs all the way deep into the Playoffs and making a legitimate battle.  They didn’t sit on it.  They built on it, and they find themselves in the Western Conference Finals with an opportunity to continue to advance.  Those guys did a heck of a job all year and were prepared for their moment. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I love everything about Oklahoma City’s organization.  I love their fan base.  To me right now it’s the best home court in all of NBA basketball.  I love how they manage their cap and how they’ve incrementally gotten better with a very, very patient approach.  I think Scott has done a fabulous job of incorporating the talents of Westbrook and Durant together and also valuing the contributions of all their players.  And then in mid season taking that trade and having it work to their advantage, I think that trade has really helped transform them into a championship‑caliber team because they’re playing bigger more, which allows them to defend and rebound I think against the best teams at a much higher, higher level. 

And now the challenge will step up another level, obviously, with Nowitzki and the Mavs because Nowitzki is so talented and they have so many good pieces.  I’m really looking forward to seeing Ibaka play Nowitzki, Collison play Nowitzki and see if they can compete at a high level keeping them off the free‑throw line but making it tough on them. 

Q.         I want to switch gears real quick.  The one‑and‑done has been such a controversial subject, and with the new collective bargaining coming up a lot of people say maybe an alternative would be to let kids go out of high school again but if they go to college make them stay at least two years.  What are your thoughts on that subject? 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think if Oklahoma City had that rule a couple drafts back, they’d be pretty disappointed.  They wouldn’t have Kevin Durant.  I think high school kids should have the opportunity to play right out of high school.  I know it’s much more difficult for NBA teams to evaluate those players just coming out of high school, but I think each individual should have the right to come out and play. 

I do believe it would be great if the NBA and their collective bargaining agreement could convince the Players Association that if they don’t come out after high school that they have to stay at least ‑‑ I would love to see it get to the baseball, college baseball rule, three years, but as you said, more likely two years because I think it would help college basketball, as well.  I think college basketball right now is being hurt much more by the one‑and‑done rule than the NBA has been hurt by that. 

MARK JACKSON:  My thoughts are I think high school players should be able to take the leap to the professional ranks.  I totally believe that it’s the right thing to do.  When you look at the game today, a lot of the great players in the game today never experienced college.  And just imagine if they didn’t have that opportunity, just imagine if they got hurt in college.  I think it’s truly the American system to allow somebody that has basically put themselves in position to be the best in the world to have an opportunity to make a living and doing so. 

I don’t feel that we should put limitations on if a kid decides to go to college how long he should stay there, also.  I believe at any point if a kid feels like he’s ready, allowing him to make the jump is the right thing to do. 

Q.         On a similar subject, and this is for all three of you, what do you think the chances are of a lockout this summer?  And is there anything that TV networks can do to encourage or apply pressure to a league to avoid a lockout that could potentially destroy a season? 

DOUG WHITE:  In terms of the network being able to do anything about it, I don’t believe that there is anything.  It just is really in the hands of both the league and the players for both sides to work out a resolution.  You know, I don’t think there’s anything that we can do to influence either side. 

As far as a handicapping of whether or not it’ll actually happen, I don’t know.  I’m not in a position to say.  I mean, we just hope that both sides find a resolution to the issue and that there isn’t any kind of interruption in play and that we can start the season on time next season. 

MARK JACKSON:  I truly hope and pray that there’s no lockout.  When you look at football, and I think you can learn from their experience, especially when you look at the NBA and the success that they’ve had as a whole with this year, you want to build on this momentum, as far as people watching the game, the interest of the people with professional basketball.  I think it would truly hurt the game if there was a lockout.

That being said, obviously it’s going to take a lot of hours of getting together and trying to nail down a new agreement, but hopefully it’s something that will be taken care of. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I don’t think the lockout itself hurts the league.  I think if the lockout then leads to where there’s games missed, then that’s a huge problem. 

I really believe this collective bargaining agreement is critical going forward so that any team that’s well managed and makes smart decisions should have a chance to do two things:  No matter the size of their marketplace, it should have the chance to win a championship and make a profit. 

And if a collective bargaining agreement doesn’t allow for that, then it’s hurting the league in the long run.  And I think right now the collective bargaining agreement is not allowing some of these smaller franchises and smaller marketplaces, even if they’re well managed, to do that, and I think that’s what is the number one problem that’s got to be corrected. 

So I’m hopeful that it does get corrected, but I’m not ‑‑ I suspect it’ll drag out at least through the summer. 

Q.         Doug, how much do you think America is ready to kind of embrace a team that doesn’t have much that familiarity with an Oklahoma City in terms of not only in the Conference Final but potential in an NBA Final, and how much more proactive do you guys have to be in kind of introducing to that team to America because they’re less familiar with them than a team like the Lakers?

DOUG WHITE:  I think they’re ready.  Look, as Mark alluded to earlier, Oklahoma City made their presence known last season, and then obviously with Kevin Durant’s presence on Team USA over the summertime in the World Championships of Basketball, he continued to keep his name in the headlines and obviously had a great season this year. 

So I don’t think in terms of trying to introduce the Thunder to the rest of the country that a lot of work has to be done.  They’ve been in the forefront all season long.  They’ve played very well this season.  They were featured on our network prominently.  So I don’t think that there’s a whole lot of work yet to be done.  They’re a good team with a great record, great performance over the last couple of seasons, so I think that they’re ‑‑ I think fans will embrace them if they continue to move on. 

Q.         I wanted to ask you about Russell Westbrook because there’s been a lot of discussion about does he pass enough, can you win a championship with that kind of point guard.  I just want to get your take on that. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think he’s taken far too much criticism for this issue.  In particular Durant has led the league in scoring the last two years, so to me Westbrook has done a good job of finding Durant in scoring situations. 

Secondly, if Westbrook wasn’t aggressive offensively, they wouldn’t have enough scoring to be where they are, which is in the Final Four of the NBA.  He has to be aggressive, looking to score along with Durant. 

And then I think he was not ‑‑ he’s a young player, and he wasn’t a prototypical point guard coming out of college, and so he’s continuing to learn.  I love his work ethic, I love his energy, I love his toughness, I love everything about him.  He’s going to continue to improve.  And I think people have been far too harsh on him in those games when he’s struggled with his decision making.  That’s natural for a younger player. 

MARK JACKSON:  You’re talking about a big‑time talent.  I think certainly when you talk about the Thunder, you don’t just say Kevin Durant.  They’re as good a duo as there is, with all due respect, when you take Dwyane Wade and LeBron James out of the picture.  But these two guys are special talents. 

I don’t think he’s appreciated enough for the way that he has exploded on the scene.  You’re talking about his Game 6 in their loss, he was their best player, and in Game 7, he put on a clinic on how to run the point guard position and how to use your teammates and how to take advantage of games without being a big‑time scorer.  I think he’s a heck of a talent, and the future is extremely bright for him. 

Q.         I’m curious to know, do you guys feel like there’s been a little bit of an overreaction to the Heat losing Game 1?  People are reacting as though the series is already over.  Do you feel like that’s a bit of an overreaction or are people legitimately concerned about the Heat’s future in the series? 

MARK JACKSON:  I certainly believe it’s a big overreaction.  This is playoff basketball, and nobody expects the Chicago Bulls or the Miami Heat to sweep either one of the other teams.  The bottom line is in playoff basketball against great teams, you’re going to find yourself the day after a game shaking your head and trying to break down film and talk about making adjustments.  That’s what it’s all about. 

And if you’re the Miami Heat, that’s exactly what you look to do right now, and you look forward to Game 2.  The bottom line is you have to win four games to advance to The Finals, and it’s about making the proper adjustments right now.  No need to overreact. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  That’s just a natural reaction now with all the media outlets that are out there, to coronate the winner and denigrate the loser after every game.  Both teams really have the same issues going into the next game.  You look at what you did right and try to continue that; you look at what needs to be corrected to win Game 2 and you try to do that. 

Both teams are really trying to do the same thing, which is play the very best they can going forward into the next game, and that’s why it’s very important the further you go in the NBA Playoffs, the more you try to muffle the outside noise.  You don’t listen to all the pontifications like myself and Mark do.  As a team it’s very important to keep your circle very tight in the Playoffs and not let anything or anyone distract you from what you need to be doing, which is how do you get better for the next game. 

Q.         With regard to Oklahoma City, it seems like they may very well be the template for the way to build teams this way going forward.  What do you think about that?  I know that’s what Ted Leonsis in Washington is looking at them as a way to go.  Is that a good template to build on? 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think that every team does it its own way, depending on your situation.  I think what Oklahoma City, with Clay Bennett and Sam Presti have accomplished is terrific.  They made the right picks, they made the right trades.  They’ve put together very patiently a team that fits their marketplace and is very accomplished and has done it over the course of the last three seasons. 

And I think Miami did it a totally different way.  They were pretty good, they got cap space, they went out and they got the best free agent available to pair up with another dynamic player, and they’re in the same position.  They’re in the Final Four. 

So I think each team has to do it in the way that they feel is best for their market. 

MARK JACKSON:  I agree with Coach.  I think ultimately the Thunder, they’ve done a great job, but I don’t think they’ve broken any ground on how to build a successful team.  They’ve drafted extremely well, and ultimately they got a superstar in Kevin Durant through the draft, also got a guy that they can trust for a long time to come at the point guard position.  They’ve made trades.  So they haven’t broken ground on how to build a team.  But give them credit; they certainly have hit the ball out of the park as far as their draft choices. 

Q.         I wanted to ask you about Derrick Rose.  My question is how surprised are you that he has matured so quickly in three years, in three seasons, he’s gone from obviously a talented, heralded young point guard to an MVP level player, and what does he have in his game now that makes him so scary that he didn’t have when he was a rookie? 

MARK JACKSON:  I’m not surprised at all, and the reason why is because if you looked at his makeup, you look at the people that he’s been around throughout the course of his life, whether it be in college or even before that, he was a guy with tremendous work ethic, he was a very humble young man, and he asked questions, which will always speed up the process as far as maturity and developing. 

He’s an incredible talent, and the thing I love about him is he’s not satisfied.  He continues to get better, continues to poke and prod as far as what can make him better.  He’s a spectacular talent.  I clearly say when you look at Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook, we have not seen this type of athletic ability at the point guard position in the history of the game. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think Rose could be the most unlikely MVP winner certainly since I’ve been in the NBA.  I think Steve Nash you could make the same case for, but this is a guy who was not an All‑Star until the same year he won the MVP.  He was a very good player, but he had two .500 records in his first two years, and then he goes from that to having the best record in the league or being a part of the team that has the best record in the league to being MVP to advancing to the Conference Finals. 

And like Mark, his talent, it doesn’t take a basketball genius to look at him and watch and know that you’re looking at a special basketball talent.  But I enjoy he and Kevin Durant’s press conferences as much as any guys in the NBA for their humility, their accountability and their responsibility to their teams, teammates and coaches.  I just love listening to them. 

Q.         Just wanted to get your view on the officiating so far in the Playoffs and what you hope to kind of see going forward given the fact that we’re now in a time where things like calls for stars and hometown calls and stuff like that gets magnified and really dissected. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I think the Playoffs have been very physical, more so than in the regular season.  I think they’re very difficult games to call because of the level of intensity, the size of the players, and I thought ‑‑ just as a focus, I thought yesterday’s game in Oklahoma City was called terrifically. 

I think the blocked charge has to be examined because I think there are too many charges now.  But that’s not really on the game officiating; that’s on the people who set up the interpretations of what is a block and what is a charge in the league office.  But just like you have the best players in the world playing at this time of the year, so too do you have the best officials, and I just hope there’s no controversial calls because it is a hard, difficult game to officiate, and you never want to see a call ‑‑ you just want the game to be decided where the best team or the best play that night wins the game and it’s not marred by controversy. 

MARK JACKSON:  As a former player, I think the officiating has been outstanding, and when you look at it, all you hope for ‑‑ you understand that good calls are going to be made, bad calls are going to be made, and missed calls are going to occur.  You just want consistency as far as refereeing is concerned, and I think they’ve done an outstanding job of being just that throughout the Playoffs.  So I just hope that it continues and that ultimately the best teams win. 

Q.         Quick question about whether either one of you were surprised about Doc Rivers making his return so quickly after the Miami series, and with Miami and Chicago being so strong, where do you see this other fitting in? 

MARK JACKSON:  I think probably surprised because it happened so quickly, and Doc was contemplating what his next move would be.  But not surprised if you’re the Boston Celtics’ ownership or front office.  You want to put all the pressure on Doc to make a decision because so many teams in this league search for great coaches, and when you have one, you want to make sure you lock them up.  Great job by that organization in locking up a great coach, and I think the future is still very bright because one thing they have is they have guys that are going to compete, they have guys that are going to leave it on the floor and know how to win, and they have the same mindset.

So I think there’s still plenty of time for the Celtics to be a dangerous team moving forward.  You just want to continue to build and add pieces because those guys are not getting any younger. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I agree with Mark.  I think the Celtics, to talk of their demise, just like with the Lakers, is very premature.  The idea that you have to blow it up and start all over again for either of those teams I think is short‑sighted. 

As far as Doc, I thought he was going to take some time, but when he was given such an incredible offer, you know, he’s worked long and hard to get that type of reward, and I’m very, very happy for him. 

Q.         When you look at Dallas and talk about the layoff, what are some of the little things that you look for to see where the impact could be greatest?  Obviously their shooting would be impacted, but what are some of the other little things that you think could have a big impact with the layoff?  And also when you look at the game with Chicago and Miami, was there anything that jumped out at you besides the length of Chicago that they did particularly well that maybe surprised you a little bit? 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  Well, I thought ‑‑ I think you could see the layoff in a number of ways:  Reaction to the ball, if they’re quick to the ball, first to the ball, offensive timing, spacing, rhythm.  Do they look as cohesive as they did in the LA series?  And I think Chicago obviously was dominant on the boards, but I was very impressed with Luol Deng.  I couldn’t believe he didn’t make all‑defense first or second team this year.  I think the guy has had a phenomenal year.  He would have been on my Eastern Conference All‑Star team.  I just think he’s an incredibly underrated player. 

And I loved how Chicago switched some of the pick‑and‑rolls and the versatility of the Chicago bigs to switch to Wade and James, contain the ball, contest shots and still come back in and rebound.  I thought Asik and Gibson and Noah in particular were terrific at switching and containing and contesting. 

MARK JACKSON:  I think when you’re talking about Dallas, I agree with Coach.  I think that being in sync offensively, last we saw them, it wasn’t a team that came down and ran 1,000 sets.  They played in rhythm, and they were in great sync as far as pick‑and‑rolls, spot‑ups, great spacing, all of those things that you get by continuing to do it.  I think that’s going to be something to watch for early in the ballgame. 

And also on the defensive end, rotations, being aware.  Those are things that are almost second nature because you do it so much.  It’s going to be interesting to see if they pick up right where they left off. 

And also when you talk about Chicago, I was thoroughly impressed with the bigs.  Their game plan of switching pick‑and‑rolls in a league where we watch so many teams and coaches complain about not being able to have guys that do things, I give credit where it’s due.  Tom Thibodeau did an outstanding job of putting the onus on his bigs and holding them accountable.  It’s a tough match‑up to switch on Dwyane Wade and LeBron James but not making any excuses and finding a way to get it done, and those guys responded. 

Q.         I just want to ask you your feeling on Jason Kidd, possibly his last chance to win an NBA title.  We know he’s a future Hall of Famer, and what are your thoughts on his chances?  What do you think he’ll do in this series? 

MARK JACKSON:  Like you said, we know that Jason Kidd is a future Hall of Famer.  He’s an all‑time great, not just point guard but player in the history of this game.  I don’t say that this is his last chance because I’m done counting out Jason Kidd.  When you’re talking about him still playing and being this effective this late in his career, in my opinion, I’ve said before, the best to ever improve his jump shot in not just the history of the NBA but basketball from a guy who couldn’t shoot a lick to now you don’t want to give him a spot‑up jumper.  At this stage of his career he’s their best defender as far as perimeter players.  When you need a stop you put Jason Kidd on that guy and live with the results.  Putting him on Kobe Bryant and the job he did doesn’t mean he’s not going to be beaten, but he’s not going to give an inch.  He’s an all‑time great, and he certainly will have not just this opportunity, but going forward.  He’s a natural‑born winner. 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  I love his competitive spirit, and to retain the love of the game after playing this many years I think goes a long way into still at his age being a very impactful player.  He certainly isn’t the same point guard as he was back in his prime with New Jersey and Phoenix, but he’s still a guy who knows exactly how to win and makes winning plays.  I have so much respect for him. 

Q.         If you could go back to, Jeff, when you were talking about Luol Deng, what makes him such a good defender? 

JEFF VAN GUNDY:  Length, lateral quickness, tenacity, basketball IQ, coachability, all those things he has.  You don’t stop LeBron James, but give me a guy with Deng’s talent and then intangibles and I’ll give you your best chance to slow him down.  And I thought his performance in Game 1 at both ends was so indicative of what he did the whole season.  I thought he was overlooked in so many ways this season, and I’m very happy for him because he’s as high a character guy as you’re going to have in this league. 

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